64bit CPU/OEM Questions??

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Cucumber

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At the end of the year i intend on upgrading to an AMD Clawhammer, and getting Windows XP 64bit version. And i want to know, if i got 64bit Windows would i still be able to run 32bit applications??
And does anyone know if the 32bit performance of the Clawhammers will be better than current performance(Athlons)??

Any help would be great, thanks

Cucumber;)
 
Of course a 64 bit processor can still run 32 bit applications.... Your 32 Bit processor can run 16 bit processes, can't it??? And it would be silly if Windows 64 bit couldn't run 32 bit code.... I should think there would be some kind of outcry if you have to rebuy Office in 64bit version just to run it on your new rig!

You don't even HAVE to run a 64bit version of Windows or Linux, you can run the 32bit.... It just runs it as a 32 bit process....

Its just that the 64 bit versions of these Operating Systems will be better optimised for these processors... And, of course, you can't run the 64bit versions on a 32bit processor.... But I am guessing you already figured that...

I imagine that there will be some compatibility issues, but not that many....

Oh, and I was reading somewhere that Mac OS X was being ported to the 64bit athlon as well.... so maybe you can run that alongside windows and linux as well...
 
Microsoft's web site mainly talks about the Itanium processor by Intel as being the processor of choice for the Windows XP 64 bit edition.....

....I imagine that it will also support the 64 bit Athlon processor as well.... But I have no firm evidence to support this.... Surely, though....

Some interesting facts:

64 bit 32 bit
Virtual memory 16 terabytes 4 GB
Paging file 512 terabytes 16 terabytes
Hyperspace 8 GB 4 MB
Paged pool 128 GB 470 MB
Non-paged pool 128 GB 256 MB
System cache 1 terabyte 1 GB


Windows XP 64-Bit Edition has been optimized specifically for the Intel Itanium processor, and benefits from its key features, such as the Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing (EPIC) design. The EPIC instruction set, which differs from the IA-32 (x86) instruction set, enables Intel Itanium processors to perform up to 20 operations simultaneously.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/overview.asp
 
Originally posted by Phantasm66
it would be silly if Windows 64 bit couldn't run 32 bit code.... I should think there would be some kind of outcry if you have to rebuy Office in 64bit version just to run it on your new rig!
Silly, perharps, but I wouldn't be surprised if they'd do that.

But note that 64-bit code takes twice the space & bandwidth when compared to 32-bit code. I'd say that affects speed.
 
Oh, I've found out of few things whilst researching your question:

*It appears that Windows 9x operating systems like Windows 95, 98, ME, etc will not run on the Itanium. Maybe Clawhammer too....

*The Itanium will not run 16 bit code and DOS apps any more....

*Microsoft so far is only promising to create a 64 Bit windows that runs on the Itanium, not the 64Bit AMD processor!

*The 64Bit AMD processor will run Windows 32 bit versions just fine.

*Linux will support the AMD 64 bit processor....




http://www.toejumper.net/bleed9/win649.htm

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_857_875^2371,00.html
 
Originally posted by Phantasm66
Oh, I've found out of few things whilst researching your question:
*Microsoft so far is only promising to create a 64 Bit windows that runs on the Itanium, not the 64Bit AMD processor!

*Linux will support the AMD 64 bit processor....

http://www.toejumper.net/bleed9/win649.htm

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_857_875^2371,00.html

Originally posted by Phantasm66
Oh, and I was reading somewhere that Mac OS X was being ported to the 64bit athlon as well.... so maybe you can run that alongside windows and linux as well...
Now wouldn't that be something if Apple would decide to let their OS run on 64Bit Athlons while Microsoft wouldn't allow XP to run on Athlons....
 
If my memory serves me right, the Itanium cpu is purely 64 bit with a completely new architecture. 32 bit applications can be run on a 64 bit OS through software emulation only.

The Hammer will be a 64 bit processor that augments the x86 architecture. 32 bit applications will be fully compatible with this cpu since it's based on the x86 architecture; no emulation is needed.

In terms of noticeable increase in performance when running a 32bit application on a 64 bit cpu, I doubt it.
 
Originally posted by erwin1978
In terms of noticeable increase in performance when running a 32bit application on a 64 bit cpu, I doubt it.

Posted by Arris -> What do you think about the new AMD Clawhammer

Found a link over at www.amdzone.com to a post on realworldtech.com forums estimating what sort of performance increase we can expect with the release of the hammer and its related technologies.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From www.realworldtech.com forums :

Reference point:
- K7 XP 2000+
- at or near end of performance scaling in 0.18 um bulk CMOS
- 1667 MHz, ~700 SPECint_base2k, ~600 SPECfp_base2k

Hammer top bin clock rate (early/mature):
- 5%/5% bump from 12 stage pipeline (extra stages mostly for IPC
gain and for handling extra complexity of x86-64)
- 20%/25% gain from 0.13 um (wire limitation, limited Leff reduction
from late model 0.18 um K7s vs use of 0.09 um FET techniques)
- 10%/15% gain from SOI
Total +35% early, +45% mature


So "IPC" improvements relative to XP (with x86-64 recompilation):
Clawhammer:

int: 20% MC + 5% FE + 5% x86-64 = 30%
FP: 5% MC + 0% FE + 10% x86-64 = 15%

Sledgehammer:

int: 25% MC + 5% FE + 5% x86-64 = 35%
FP: 40% MC + 0% FE + 10% x86-64 = 50%


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Just thought that this would give us something to nibble at until any real benchmarks are out ;)

The Hammer line of CPUs will definitly see an improvement over the Athlon CPUS even when running 32bit applications ( even at equal speeds ). When software will be optimised for 64bit, the increaase will be even more noticeable.
 
Phantasm: I've read from a number of sources (including The Register®) that Microsoft has been working closely with AMD to optimize XP64 for their Hammer processors. I've even heard of apparent favortism for AMD over Intel from MS.

If my memory serves me right, the Itanium cpu is purely 64 bit with a completely new architecture. 32 bit applications can be run on a 64 bit OS through software emulation only
Anyone here with an Itanium? I'm curious about this too, but I remember the Itanium being able to run 32-bit applications, although not necessarily natively. Rather than containing bulky legacy microcode, it has some sort of 32-to-64 translation mode. This converts 32-bit instructions to native 64-bit instructions so it can perform legacy operations too... But this type of hardware translation probably comes as a huge loss to CPU power.

The Hammer will contain both 64-bit and legacy as one huge happy family I believe, by simply extending its intstruction set. But, I imagine this will take up some major die real-estate. It will likely result in lower 64-bit performance clock for clock, but I'm sure it will run both modern and legacy apps very fast either way. It's kind of a happy medium I suppose...

I believe the reason Intel didn't just extend their instruction set to support 64-bit (Kind of like what they did to the 386 to support 16/32bit) is the following drawbacks: Die size. The larger the die, the more expensive, hot and slow the processor is. This streamlining really offers the best 64-bit performance I would imagine. But I really think we need to bridge the 32/64bit gap. We can't just jump into the 64-bit sea without at least something to float on.
 
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